debate topics for illegal immigration
 

SO I am up to my butt in research papers, and other school stuff that is all due REALLY soon. I am sitting at home on cinco de mayo night not :beer or :redspotda :wiggle :wiggle .

I just now changed my topic for my history debate paper to illegal immigration because this seems more interesting than the ports ordeal I was doing for the past few weeks.

What are the debate topics on both sides?

Against illegal immigration I can talk about public services such as schooling and medical, jobs, and _____________________.


For illegal immigration I can talk about how the US is using excuses as a scapegoat as we are being racist. I can talk about the history of immigration and how the Irish, Italians, ect were all discriminated against. and ______________.


Other things that I might want to included, but am not sure how to are: organizations such as the minute men, Treaty of Hidolago Guadaloupe (spelling), immigration quotas and ____________.


I am pooped from school stuff right now. Any help will be appreciated. I thought that I would post here since it is a hot topic.

heh im writting a paper also.

5 points for procrastination.
i got more but ima finish my paper first. 1 page left! and my bibliography.

good luck. hope that helped.

How about you just make the body of your report say.
"Illegal immigration is ILLEGAL!"
Fin!

Wow. Let's see if I can even get started this early :p So many issues about jobs they do that most of us don't wanna do... Ok! That's as much as I can handle now :lol :laugh

This may seem incendiary, and I don't mean any offense to any race/country, but here are some copy and paste stuff:

Subject: Common Sense from a retired Border Patrol Agent

This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from
a retired border patrol agent, and it has more common
sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate,
with the exception of a few sensible representatives.


Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

#1.
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

#2.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

#3.
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who
brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

#4.
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the
workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

#6.
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

#7.
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to
illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

#8.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S.
from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their
schoolchildren.

#9.
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates
and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

#10.
There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

#11.
It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to
secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America ? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.



David J. Stoddard
U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona


More...

These first 10 items are from the Los Angeles Times.

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A.County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County).

(All 10 above from the Los Angeles Times)


And to show the other side of the coin regarding immigration to OTHER countries:

Received the following from (Tom O'Malley) who was a Director with SW BELL
in Mexico City.

You remember I spent five years working in Mexico .

I worked under a tourist Visa for three months and could legally renew it
for three more months. After that you were working Illegally. I was
technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval

During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure a
permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that
I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the
same except hers did not permit her to work.

To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals
(not copies) of my:

1. Birth certificate for Barbara and I.

2. Marriage certificate.

3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.

4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of graduation.


5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at least
one year.

6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no arrest
record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good
standing."

7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why
there was no Mexican Citizen with my skills and why my skills were important
to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on Earth" letter. It
was fun to write.

All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and
be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It produced
a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish on
the right.

Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied by
a Mexican Attorney touring Mexican Government office locations and being
photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location and we
remember at least four locations we were instructed on Mexican tax, labor,
housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their laws or
face the consequences. We could not protest any of the Governments actions
or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand dollars in
fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we could legally
bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in Laredo, Texas.
This meant we had rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our goods. There
were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.

We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and
under contract and compliance with Mexican law.

We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing
process. The company arranged for the Licensing agency to come to our
Headquarters location with their photography and fingerprint equipment and
the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and
fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six
dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received
instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give a
policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it
against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it you
would have to pay ransom to get it back.

We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of
our FM3 as our ID number. The company's Mexican accountants did this for us
and we just signed what they prepared. It was about twenty legal size pages
annually.

The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying
more fees.

Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were leaving
no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or
liens) before our household goods were released to customs.

It was a real adventure and if any of our Senators or Congressman went
through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.

The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its
citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White house
or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States
Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and during
most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men
standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy.
These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public
park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a
protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.

Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard on
illegal immigrants.

There are many things that can be said about the quotes that ogpro posts. I will warn you paper-writers abou a few things that stuck out to me:

1) The first list lists many things that are merely a matter of opinion. If you use that material, be sure to treat those statements as such.
2) I lost all credibility for that first list when I read that the illegal immigrants, who by different counts range from 10 to 20 million, are sending out $20 billion to their countries. Calculators are cheap; check those numbers.
Edit: I got my calculator out (not really, I just made numbers in my head), and realized that it is possible. My bad :p

3) The experience of an American citizen seeking to work legally in Mexico is very illuminating. However, it is not much different from what one has to go through in order to enter the US legally.

My opinion as a legal non-immigrant professional worker (i.e., I am here doing the jobs that many Americans cannot do) in the US:

The immigration laws here are hardly "welcoming" to legal immigration. I am not saying they should be. It's your country. Your laws. I am just saying thay although I have felt welcome at a personal level by many many people, including my fellow UBers, I don't feel welcomed by the laws. In fact, upon entering the country at the immigration points in ariports, etc., the immigration officers no longer say "Welcome to the United States of America," as they used to.

I had something else to say, but I guess I forgot.

Good luck writing the paper(s).

^DRZ...

I'm a legal immigrant myself, my wife is about to become one and I know we've had to jump through hoops but I think it is waaaaay out of line to say that we've gone through half the sh!t that guy had to go through to just WORK in mexico. I know people who are also here on work permits, and trust me, it's cake compared to that. Not tryin to start anything, but dude, come on, just this paragraph alone is horrible:
"Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied by
a Mexican Attorney touring Mexican Government office locations and being
photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location and we
remember at least four locations we were instructed on Mexican tax, labor,
housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their laws or
face the consequences. We could not protest any of the Governments actions
or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand dollars in
fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we could legally
bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in Laredo, Texas.
This meant we had rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our goods. There
were extensive fees involved here that the company paid."

nawmean?

Oh, I hear you, man. I had considered tMexico as a possible work location, but after reading that, I am not sure that I want to keep it on my list. The process, when it works out, is not nearly as hard here in the US. This may add gas to the fire, but I will say it nonetheless: it would not surprise me if all that crap that guy had to go through happened as some sort of weird "retaliation" directed only against US citizens.

I am not trying to start anything here. I just throw stuff outthere that I suspect most people may not know.

Hehe...that would be funny...a kind of like "Yea take that you gringo" heheh. Sucks tho. But seriously, I think the process is that way in a third world country because they're trying to squeeze as much $$ out of you. Everybody has to earn, because they all have to fiind a way to survive there. I've noticed that in most third world countries, the bureacracy is ridiculous. Red tape for decades. I've been subject to some of that crap myself where I'm from, and it's not funny when you're the one who has to kiss ass.

tru dat

all of it

just testing my sig...

^^ A little wide, maybe?

There is a test thread forum, btw, that way your not screwing up a thread.

That is a great way of getting an "F."
I am debating both sides without using my opinion through history and research of the topic itself.

You should put in your paper....that they (illegal immigrants) are already here. They've been here....and they want to be recogized. They pay taxes, they pay city bills, they just don't have citizenship.

They'll just keep coming over. Until something big happens. If the American governement passes or doesn't do anything......something is bound to happen. Just like that Anti-American Mexican no work day.

I know several hispanic family friends who really want a citizenship and they've been here for 5 years. They are moving down south (Georgia) because of more opportunites (He's a pilot). They even got a letter from the courts saying they had to be a jurry memeber in a trial. They sent a letter back saying they don't have citizenship yet, and they didn't have to do the jurry duty.

It just bothers me about this topic. Something has to be done.

And, a hispanic guy at work explained the situation to me. He said that many many years ago, the blacks did the same thing, and they got citizenship. So why not the hispanics?