FWD vs RWD - United Bimmer Community

**komodo** · 07-13-2005, 09:45 AM

I know there was a little debate about this when I was gone that ended up in the thread being closed/deleted. In looking back at it a few decisions were made. In other subforums like e36, things will be more strict, staying to information like they should... but around the lounge things we're going to try to be more laid back. We'll try our best to keep threads open as long as they remain civil and non-racist (or anything else extreme). For this to work though you guys need to try your best to remain respectful of other people's opinions. It is the internet, don't take things personally. And don't call someone out just because they disagree with you. This forum was founded by the members for the members and I'll never forget that. Occasionally one member might get into a catfight with a mod, but if it involves this many people, the situation might need to be reevaluated. In response, the mods have been talked to and let's try starting fresh shall we. I'm restarting this thread with the confidence that you all can be mature enough to have a logical debate regarding the issue, however heated it is. Do not attack other members and try to find evidence to back up your claim. Be respectful of other's opinions and this will be a nice little debate. I'll be watching it closely and if anyone makes a comment over the line, you'll be dealt with on an individual basis.

That being said, which do you guys perfer, FWD cars, AWD, or RWD, and why?

**gotKRAUT** · 07-13-2005, 10:08 AM

me personally i preffer all of them depending on what im doing..

FWD: real right canyon twisties i will hands down go light weight short wheel base FWD
FWD2: a tight AutoX course
FWD3: Rally and other loose traction
RWD: longer sweeping canyons...hands down a well balanced RWD car
RWD2: Drag Racing duh FWD drag racing is like...well pointless

AWD: for the loose traction fun...ohhh ya baby AWD...
AWD2: Drag Racing with low/medium HP and built drivetrain

Thus i spend most of my time in really tight NorCal canyons and dirt

so the obvious choice for my at this time was FWD and it works spectubularly for me!

**EnvyM3** · 07-13-2005, 10:08 AM

RWD is the best. That is all.

**komodo** · 07-13-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnvyM3

RWD is the best. That is all.

Why?

**ChrisWorrell** · 07-13-2005, 10:15 AM

Acceleration
Accelerate with near full power in a front-wheel drive car and you'll quickly notice the resulting effect of rearward weight shift. The front tires will likely lose traction and spin – even on clean, dry pavement. By contrast, hard acceleration in rear-wheel drive cars increases the rear wheels' grip on good road surfaces because of the rearward weight shift.

Braking
Stopping ability is enhanced by the superior weight distribution of RWD. With the rear wheels carrying a greater percentage of the car's weight load than on a front-wheel drive car, they can apply more braking force to the road and help shorten stopping distances. Since RWD contributes to even tire wear, it is more likely that tires on a RWD car will have greater tread depth. Unless tires on a FWD car are rotated religiously, the front tires may become worn and less effective in braking.

Responsive Cornering
Near equal weight distribution helps give front and rear wheels more balanced traction. This balance gives neutral handling characteristics that make cornering maneuvers easier. Rear-wheel drive's more equal weight distribution also aids handling agility through a lower moment of inertia. FWD cars usually have higher moments of inertia, contributing to understeer and sluggishness in cornering. As a result, RWD cars feel more responsive, lighter, and more nimble.

Balanced Force Distribution
With FWD, both steering and propulsion forces tax the front tires' slip-resistance during cornering. That's part of the reason why FWD cars tend to understeer or plow forward, changing directions less quickly than the turning angle of the front wheels. Since RWD separates the tasks of cornering (front wheels) and propulsion (rear wheels), it more equally distributes the traction-threatening forces to all four wheels.

Torque Steering
Torque steering is a negative side-effect of FWD caused by the delivery of power to the wheels that steer the car. During acceleration in a curve or from a standstill, the force of torque steering can pose a hazard by changing the direction of the front wheels unless the driver is alert and can exert counteractive force on the steering wheel. RWD does not exhibit torque effect because the engine is isolated from the steering gear.

Longer Wheelbase
RWD allows a longer wheelbase and a more forward positioning of the front wheels. The longer wheelbase provides better handling while the forward position of the wheels reduces the possibility of the front spoiler scraping on dips.

No CV Joints
FWD cars have four CV (constant velocity) joints connecting the engine to the front wheels. In comparison, RWD cars use universal joints which wear out much slower than CV joints.

Summary

RWD pros:
Fore-aft weight distribution more balanced. Braking performance enhanced. Tire wear more even. Cornering easier, more responsive. Lighter than AWD configuration for better acceleration and cornering performance and better fuel-efficiency. Better hard acceleration performance on good surfaces than with FWD. Better cornering ability because steering and propulsion are applied at separate axles. Greater agility because of lower resistance to changes in direction (lower moment of inertia). Longer wheelbase for smoother ride. Absence of torque steering effect common with FWD. No CV joints to replace.

FWD pros:
Good traction during mild acceleration on slippery surfaces. Lighter weight helps fuel-efficiency. Interior room enhanced by lack of longitudinal driveshaft. Less expensive to manufacture.

AWD pros:
Traction enhanced on all road surfaces under all weather conditions. Faster acceleration "off the line" due to all wheels driving. Better road grip during cornering in adverse weather or slippery road conditions.

Courtesy of BMW North America

**jrhaile** · 07-13-2005, 10:17 AM

I'd prefer to drive a RWD car any day. I feel more in control of what is going on as far as handling. However, after this last weekend's drive through leavenworth, I was impressed with one VW and it's driver's handling capabilities. Doesn't mean I like FWD, but I respect it a little more on the type of run we were doing. On every straight away, me and m3 wold catch him, but couldn't remain on him through the really tight turns... with about 2 more miles, I think we would have had him though :P

**EnvyM3** · 07-13-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komodo

Why?

Fo handling purposes. I used to have a VR6 Jetta and never really quite "felt" the road like I do in my Bimmer. Oh....and...can I say drifting

The only downfall I can see to having RWD is that I live in NH and we get a lot of snow. But...It is definitely worth the 4 months of snow for the 8 with with the road

**gotKRAUT** · 07-13-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnvyM3

RWD is the best. That is all.

in certain driving conditions maybe but i need some more reasoning that that...that sounds rather closed minded

expand please! haha EDIT: Gracias for the clarification

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWorrell

Courtesy of BMW North America

man they missed a lot of pros and cons of FWD and some AWD but they somehow manage to NAIL RWD to a T wonder why...ohhhhhhhh its from BMW

craig · 07-13-2005, 10:21 AM

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...112_0506_grip/

**komodo** · 07-13-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotKRAUT

expand please! haha

He did, but I think it was at the same time you were replying.

**EnvyM3** · 07-13-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotKRAUT

in certain driving conditions maybe but i need some more reasoning that that...that sounds rather closed minded

expand please! haha

man they missed a lot of pros and cons of FWD and some AWD but they somehow manage to NAIL RWD to a T wonder why...ohhhhhhhh its from BMW

^^^Post above yours. I beat you to it with the explanation.

**gotKRAUT** · 07-13-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komodo

He did, but I think it was at the same time you were replying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnvyM3

^^^Post above yours. I beat you to it with the explanation.

haha ya just noticed that and edited it

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrhaile

I'd prefer to drive a RWD car any day. I feel more in control of what is going on as far as handling. However, after this last weekend's drive through leavenworth, I was impressed with one VW and it's driver's handling capabilities. Doesn't mean I like FWD, but I respect it a little more on the type of run we were doing. On every straight away, me and m3 wold catch him, but couldn't remain on him through the really tight turns... with about 2 more miles, I think we would have had him though :P

see thatssss why i drive FWD...just imagine that car lighter in weight with an extremely moded suspension and shorter wheel base in those really tight turns and thats why i picked my car...its not like i went "sweet a VW" i looked for about 6 months or so, weighing pros and cons/specs/driving style, conditions...everything this car fit my needs to a T....sigh it fits these canyons soo well...

Volkswagen actually hired karman coachwerks to design the scirocco as a car that really "feels the road" and "makes the driver feel one with the car/road" so its kinda different than a civic or Tank of a newer VW haha...as the guys of top gear said...they would take a Rabbit GTi(same chasis as mine) over an R32 because of the fun value derived from feeling every move of the car....

lol...ok sorry slightly off topic...bed time haha

**///M Power** · 07-13-2005, 11:01 AM

Look at my sig. I think it's clear what my position is, but just don't assume I "poo-poo" every non=RWD car out there. I know there are a lot of great FWD/AWD cars and i'm not afraid to admit that sometimes they can kick BMWs ass.

witeshark · 07-13-2005, 01:41 PM

My take: I love powering out of turns after enter/lift-off (throttle) - apex -exit slam it! (throttle) FUN!

**xsperf** · 07-13-2005, 03:19 PM

ChrisWorrell, that was total pwnage duude!

but anyway, regardless of whatever, looking at it from a mechanic's point of view, in front wheel drive cars, since the power is to the front wheels, the "front end" of the car has much more stress on it, and is more likely to be faulty, let me expand

on FWD cars, outer tie rods, ball joints, wheel bearings, etc are more likely to go than RWD cars, and that is being said from personal expierience, not on BMW's/audi's or VWs, but any car, oh yes, 1 audi

EDIT: also CV joints on FWD cars