What the hell is going on?!

[Hoppy]

if you plan on owning a hand gun id definatly take a pistol course

even if you dont plan on owning a gun, id take a rifle course.
"a pistol only purpose is to fight your way to a rifle"

these are some of the courses offered by Smith and wesson

Personal Defense Courses
Handgun Technique - $150
plus ammunition purchase and 7 Hours – offered monthly
Instructor – Ernie Graziano, Ken Frisbie and Ken Tingley
Concealed Carry - $300
plus ammunition purchase and 2 Days – offered quarterly
Instructor – Ken Frisbie, Ernie Graziano and Ken Tingley
Tactics & Techniques - $600
Ammunition is included.
Instructor – Bill Porter

Advanced Concealed Carry - $450
plus ammunition purchase and 3 Days – offered bi-annually
Instructor – Ken Frisbie and Ernie Graziano

http://shootingsports.smith-wesson.c...yourskill.html

[CAPiTUL]

Sad, indeed.

What's going on in society wherein this and other saddening acts are becoming more common place?

What happened in the course of 20 years that made it unsafe for kids to play outside? In the 80s I did. You don't really see it much, anymore.

Society as a whole needs to slow down for a minute and realize what is going on. Something is out of alignment and is pulling it off the road, it would appear.

[Dudesky]

Originally Posted by RSF5

Where you in the military?

Yea, he's Army, served an extended tour in Iraq. Also when he was younger, his grandfather had firearms in the home, and taught him well.

[celsdogg]

^^ yup, thanks.

my respect for weapons started at home, it was only strengthened by the military. the point was though, that the people who would carry if it were legal would be more than familiar with most of the same concepts.

[celsdogg]

the debate on carrying a weapon rages on!

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20020917a.html

Jowyk began researching his law school's gun policy following the January incident in which a disgruntled student at Appalachian Law School, Peter Odighizuwa, allegedly shot and killed the school's dean, a professor and a student on campus before being subdued by two armed students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges.

this article states both points in a simplistic manner.

[RSF5]

Originally Posted by celsdogg

^^ yup, thanks.

my respect for weapons started at home, it was only strengthened by the military. the point was though, that the people who would carry if it were legal would be more than familiar with most of the same concepts.

Yeah, if only everyone that carried could be trained in and have the respect for weapons like you.

When ever I think about this I always come back to my neighbor with the unlocked gun under the seat of the unlocked car and I wish there was a way to give guns to the smart and keep them away from the stupid.

Originally Posted by Hoppy

if you plan on owning a hand gun id definatly take a pistol course

even if you dont plan on owning a gun, id take a rifle course.
"a pistol only purpose is to fight your way to a rifle"

these are some of the courses offered by Smith and wesson

http://shootingsports.smith-wesson.c...yourskill.html

Yeah, if I ever plan on owning a gun I will spend as much as it takes on proper training classes.

[mullethunter3]

A short briefing on Missouri's CCW (Concealed Carry Weapons) Laws:

The applicant must have a clean criminal record with no felonies of any kind no mater how long ago. He or she cannot have been convicted of a misdemeanor which prohibits the purchase of firearms in Missouri, or a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last five (5) years. Domestic violence is certainly a crime of violence, and as a practical matter, persons with such convictions are forever barred by federal law from possessing a firearm. The applicant cannot have been convicted of two (2) driving while intoxicated charges in the last five (5) years. The statute says driving while intoxicated, not the lesser charge of driving under the influence often used in cases of drug intoxication or when the blood alcohol level cannot be determined. The applicant cannot have been convicted of possessing a controlled substance (they mean drugs) in the last five (5) years. The applicant cannot be charged with any of the above offenses at the time of application.

The applicant cannot have been dishonorably discharged from the military. There are several less than honorable discharges in the military, but only a dishonorable discharge disqualifies the applicant. See the “Prohibited Persons” section at page 79 in MISSOURI WEAPONS AND SELF-DEFENSE LAW.

The statute also prohibits applications by persons adjudged mentally incompetent or committed to a mental health facility in this or any other state. The adjudication or commitment must have been following a hearing at which the defendant was represented by counsel or a representative. The statutes uses the language “or for five years prior to application”. This may indicate that the applicant must have been restored to sanity more than five years prior to application, in any case, it certainly should. As a practical matter, such persons are prohibited under state and federal law from receiving firearms or ammunition.

There is also a provision barring persons who have “engaged in a pattern of behavior, documented in public records, that causes the sheriff to have a reasonable belief that the applicant presents a danger to himself or others. This is the “naked man” provision. A person in the habit of getting naked and howling at the moon may not be dangerous, but may raise questions. A series of restraining orders, transportation for psychiatric observation, or a number of charges for disturbing the peace may raise questions. Anyone exceptionally eccentric or irresponsible can be barred.

The full law can be seen here: MO CCW Law

In addition, the sheriffs (who must approve you) require that you go through psychological and weapons training courses. Of the few people in Missouri who actually have CCW, I haven't met one that I would be scared of. (Not that I've met everyone in the state, but I worked in the licensing part of the DMV.) I'm not saying that the law is fool-proof, because it's not, it's a very good screening process.

To say that EVERYONE would be "packing heat" on the VT campus had that bill been approved is ridiculous. Only those who were approved by the sheriff to be a sound citizen would be legal to carry a gun. Of the people I have met who have CCW, they merely carry it as self-defense; when every other option is gone, that is their LAST route of escape. They are taught not to be aggressive, not to look for a fight and to diffuse the situation before is escalates into violence involving a firearm. I think that 30+ lives would have been saved if VT had a CCW (or LTC) policy in effect.

[Hoppy]

To say that EVERYONE would be "packing heat" on the VT campus had that bill been approved is ridiculous. Only those who were approved by the sheriff to be a sound citizen would be legal to carry a gun. Of the people I have met who have CCW, they merely carry it as self-defense; when every other option is gone, that is their LAST route of escape. They are taught not to be aggressive, not to look for a fight and to diffuse the situation before is escalates into violence involving a firearm. I think that 30+ lives would have been saved if VT had a CCW (or LTC) policy in effect.

thats true. carrying a firearms actualy makes most people more cautious. they can not engage in any activity where the firearm could be taken from them or used against them. they cant be involved in a situation that possesion of the firearm could make a misdemeanor into a felony. and have to avoid situations that are generaly dangerous that they may be killed with thier own gun.

no fist fights, no shoving matches, no agressive words with people in say a road accident etc. having a gun and beign part of one of these is not only serious legal trouble, but also a very dangerous mix of deadly weapons and avoidable altercations.

as a side note. it sounds like MO is a May Issue state ( like MA) in that a chief LEO ( law enforcement officer) gets issuing discretion. some states are "shall issue" where so long as you are mentaly sound, and have no past record the state is legaly obligated to give you a license. and two states. AK and VT have no state level licenseing at all. ( god bless them) of course federal level laws and background check are still required to purchase a gun, but no license is required to own or cary

[mullethunter3]

Hoppy, are you saying that AK and VT have no regulations on carrying guns? i.e. concealed carry?

[MTurboPower3]

the only reason that there r laws is to give politicians somthing to do if they didnt make laws the government would be robbing us everyday and just burning money with cigars. laws keep everyone in line politiicans and citizens

[RSF5]

Originally Posted by mullethunter3

Hoppy, are you saying that AK and VT have no regulations on carrying guns? i.e. concealed carry?

+1 ?

[mullethunter3]

Originally Posted by MTurboPower3

the only reason that there r laws is to give politicians somthing to do if they didnt make laws the government would be robbing us everyday and just burning money with cigars. laws keep everyone in line politiicans and citizens

Seriously, not making fun, but do you know what punctuation is? That doesn't even make sense...

[RSF5]

Originally Posted by mullethunter3

Seriously, not making fun, but do you know what punctuation is? That doesn't even make sense...

Watch it mullet, I got on to him for it before, he'll accuse you of being "an English teacher"...

[mullethunter3]

^^^Sorry, man. But seriously, Hoppy, what's the deal?

[Hoppy]

im here. sorry i was at work.

Vermont has no licensesing at all. you can carry concealed, you can carry open. 21 years old, non felon. good to go!

they certainly have laws. such as where you EDIT: CANT carry

School Buildings. (The law says School Buildings and does not mention Primary, Secondary or College So all school buildings, both public and private, are off limits.)
Any state institution or upon the grounds or lands owned or leased for the use of such institution, without the approval of the warden or superintendent of the institution. (This Section Probably covers Colleges as well, but would certainly apply to state hospitals and correctional facilities)
Court Houses.
A building with controlled points of public access, metal screening devices at each point of public access, and locked compartments, accessible only to security personnel, for storage of checked firearms.

Packing.org

No permit is needed by Residents or Non Residents to carry a concealed firearm in Vermont

Packing.org

as for alaska

Date updated: Sep 11, 2005 @ 10:07 pm

A permit is no longer required to carry in Alaska.

Packing.org

both alaska and Vermont have voluntary licenses that basicly make it easier to ID yourself as a non felon. or to exclude you from the NCIS ( federal background check and waiting period ) these voluntary licenses are judged by the Federal government to fufill its standards.