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Unread 11-08-2005, 01:46 AM   #1
komodo's Avatar

Name: komodo
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Microsoft Windows vs Apple OS X

I finally approached Witeshark about his registry obsession. Let's continue this conversation openly on here. What do you guys think?

witesharc007: Rooz is an idiot to dump 1.3K on win XP hardware
witesharc007: Oh it's true!
CalliditasCastor: hardly
CalliditasCastor: i actually prefer xp to os x
CalliditasCastor: and i have both
CalliditasCastor: and use both daily
witesharc007: registry = root user open YO
witesharc007: to the core
CalliditasCastor: you know, there ARE advantages too
CalliditasCastor: if you keep your computer up to date and secure, it works nicely
CalliditasCastor: :-)
witesharc007: media?
CalliditasCastor: and it's easy to use
CalliditasCastor: more so than os-x
CalliditasCastor: it's flexible
CalliditasCastor: which os-x isn't
CalliditasCastor: it's compatible, which os-x is behind on
witesharc007: OS-X = FreeBSD + GUI
witesharc007: = Secure
CalliditasCastor: secure, yes, but try developing a firewall software suite on os x
witesharc007: win xp = registry open to Russian key loggers
CalliditasCastor: in windows i could knock it out in an hour
CalliditasCastor: do you even understand what the registery is?
witesharc007: and joe Vodka can kill that registry key in under 3 minutes
CalliditasCastor: it has nothing to do with the keyboard or any APIs that could access the keyboard :_p
CalliditasCastor: :-P
witesharc007: No Harry
CalliditasCastor: the registery holds information
CalliditasCastor: that's it
witesharc007: Registry is the ultimate open core OS
CalliditasCastor: granted it can control startup scripts
CalliditasCastor: explain.
witesharc007: you think?
witesharc007: registry KEYS are OPEN to write, Add AND DELETE
witesharc007: HWLLO!~
CalliditasCastor: not when priviledges are setup correctly
witesharc007: Hellow!
witesharc007: O Registry Admin passwords are STORED where?
witesharc007: Low level user can cause REGISTRY damage SYSTEM WIDE
CalliditasCastor: in one-way hash files encrypted and stores in the system directory
witesharc007: AND
CalliditasCastor: low level users can't do anything
CalliditasCastor: you have to be logged in as an administrator to change registery keys affecting the OS
witesharc007: they can expose the registry THAT IS ALL
witesharc007: no
CalliditasCastor: however most people setup their windows wrong and are always logged in as admins
CalliditasCastor: yes.
witesharc007: web pages can do all 3 edits levels
CalliditasCastor: try creating a non-admin account and modifying a system key
CalliditasCastor: yes, if you're viewing the web site from an admin accoutn
witesharc007: it can be done
witesharc007: BUT THAT CANNOT be EVER on OS X
CalliditasCastor: if you login to unix as root and view a web page with a properly written macro, it could do the same thing
witesharc007: OR FreeBSD
witesharc007: OR Linux
CalliditasCastor: yes it could.
witesharc007: no
CalliditasCastor: login to redhat as root
witesharc007: not that way
CalliditasCastor: yes that way.
witesharc007: Registry keys = uniform
witesharc007: ALL wintel box
witesharc007: OK
witesharc007: THAT IS ALL
CalliditasCastor: login to redhat as root, and go to a website that runs a java script that calls rm -rf /
CalliditasCastor: that'll do it
witesharc007: no
CalliditasCastor: how not/
witesharc007: NOT ON ALL
CalliditasCastor: yes on all...
CalliditasCastor: but the thing is no one logs into redhat as root
CalliditasCastor: they user user accounts
witesharc007: but not on OS X too????
CalliditasCastor: that'd do have priviledges to write to /
CalliditasCastor: i'm not saying OS X isn't secure... it is. more so than windows... i'm just saying there are advantages to windows that you are blind to
witesharc007: take central OS class like ForTran
CalliditasCastor: you don't have to be all die-hard apple... at least be open minded
witesharc007: bullshit
CalliditasCastor: bullshit to what?
witesharc007: registry = WORLD wide uniform
witesharc007: BSD = Password protected
witesharc007: Unix
CalliditasCastor: are you not listening to a single thing i'm saying?
witesharc007: OS X
witesharc007: and Linux
witesharc007: All Unix needs password crack
CalliditasCastor: i've been using windows everyday and haven't gotten a virus or had any problems in many, many years
CalliditasCastor: that security problem obviously isn't too pressing
witesharc007: All winbloz needs = registry key edit / delete on UNIFORM KEYS
witesharc007: All winbloz needs = registry key edit / delete on UNIFORM KEYS
witesharc007: All winbloz needs = registry key edit / delete on UNIFORM KEYS
witesharc007: ON ALL Winblows boxes!~
CalliditasCastor: assuming you're logged in as root user and you haven't kept your system up to date
CalliditasCastor: and that's also not true, the registery has changed from each version of windows. most registery vulnerabilities only affect xp, or 98, or 2000... rarely all of them
witesharc007: where did you hear that?
CalliditasCastor: i'm a programmer....
CalliditasCastor: i've used the registry in different versions of windows.
witesharc007: i figured the win REGEDIT in win 95
witesharc007: i was 12
witesharc007: after win 98 SE
CalliditasCastor: the command is the same....
witesharc007: I knew they BLEW it
CalliditasCastor: the registry changed.
CalliditasCastor: i'm saying if you keep your windows machine up to date on security patches and virus definations, you should have absolutely no threat of being compromised.
witesharc007: yeah
witesharc007: true
witesharc007: and
witesharc007: if
witesharc007: you use Unix
witesharc007: YOU DON'T HAVE to do that shit
CalliditasCastor: i personally have a windows xp desktop, a apple os x powerbook laptop, a linux desktop, and multiple freebsd servers.... i know the different os's.
witesharc007: Christ - you have a PowerBook?
CalliditasCastor: and THAT is completely untrue as well.
witesharc007: and didn't see that?
CalliditasCastor: in unix there is TONS of patches
CalliditasCastor: if i don't constantly patch Apache on my servers, i'd have vulnerabilities everywhere
witesharc007: no Unix patches = registry exposure!
witesharc007: don't EVEN tel me you can't see that!~
CalliditasCastor: and on OS X, have you not noticed the Software Update program that comes with it?
CalliditasCastor: it has security patches from time to time as well
CalliditasCastor: unix has plenty of patches
witesharc007: ok Bill
CalliditasCastor: i'm not biased at all... i'm being completely objective as i personally use them all
CalliditasCastor: you're the one who's being completely closed minded...
witesharc007: so do i
witesharc007: i use them all too
witesharc007: I like Red Hat and Mandrake
CalliditasCastor: http://httpd.apache.org/security/vul...lities_20.html
CalliditasCastor: do you see that?
witesharc007: and Yellow Dog
CalliditasCastor: those are security vulnerabilities in the NEW release of apache
CalliditasCastor: i've patched every single one of those
CalliditasCastor: i spend more time patching security updates on my unix machines than i do on my windows machine
CalliditasCastor: far more
witesharc007: yeah I knw
witesharc007: but on the PowerBook?
CalliditasCastor: http://www.securitytracker.com
and on that site you can find thousands of security patches for linux
CalliditasCastor: have you ever used Software Update?
witesharc007: Why do you think I dumped all Linux to go Aplwe
witesharc007: Apple
CalliditasCastor: click the apple icon top left and click on software update
CalliditasCastor: heh
CalliditasCastor: Software Update = Microsoft Update
CalliditasCastor: same thing.
CalliditasCastor: http://www.securemac.com
CalliditasCastor: ever been there?
witesharc007: Registry is clearly worse
witesharc007: \ok?
CalliditasCastor: things like "Root Shell in 4 steps with setuid apps
sudo buffer overflow exploit + fix
Disable Single User Boot Mode
Malevolence - Dumping Passwords
nidump security
Startup Security - Open Firmware Password Protection"
witesharc007: ok?
witesharc007: cause registry = uniform on all winloz box
witesharc007: no hacking needed
CalliditasCastor: you're completely ignoring everything i'm saying....
CalliditasCastor: didn't we already prove it's not uniform?
witesharc007: more uniform than any Unix
CalliditasCastor: sure, windows has a lot of malicious programs targetting the registry... however it's also instlaled on 95% of the computers out there, so it makes sense the security issues are more often in the news than os x
CalliditasCastor: any OS with that high usage would get more publicity for security issues
witesharc007: not that again!
CalliditasCastor: no OS is secure
CalliditasCastor: bottom line
witesharc007: join linuxquestions.org!
CalliditasCastor: and if you perform the necessary maintainence steps, you're computer will be secure no matter what
witesharc007: of course
witesharc007: it LESS on the Mac
CalliditasCastor: so why are you so anti-windows?
witesharc007: enough said
witesharc007: and gates is a liar
CalliditasCastor: i've never said it wasn't less on a mac.... i'm just saying you don't have to be so closed minded about windows
CalliditasCastor: HAHA
CalliditasCastor: him personally?
CalliditasCastor: okay.
witesharc007: yup
witesharc007: GUI was Xerox original
CalliditasCastor: indeed.
CalliditasCastor: you're changing the topic completely. we're talking about security and patches, and you all of a sudden turn it to calling gates a liar from back in the 1980s?
witesharc007: it IS part of the history
witesharc007: no?
CalliditasCastor: yes, but that's not what we're talking about now.
CalliditasCastor: if you have your windows computer patched and up to date, why do you dislike it so much then?
witesharc007: because it's a POS and is like a car that needs new OIL and tires and new FUCKING HOSES on all gas refills
CalliditasCastor: so you're saying it's a piece of shit because it requires a lot of patches, even though on SP2 of XP, the patches are automatic and you NEVER have to run them (they download and install automatically from your system tray)... where the OS X updates you have to manually install from Software Update, actually requiring MORE work than the windows machine
witesharc007: yup
witesharc007: Have a cookie
CalliditasCastor: ...
witesharc007: Night

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Unread 11-08-2005, 05:54 AM   #2

Name: Dudesky
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I've learned over the years that there is no point in discussing this topic, although the abundance of misconceptions does get me fired up from time to time. Anyone who still argues to one side or the other has clearly forgotten that the entire industry is a developing technology still in its infancy. And this also applies to the other war (Intel vs AMD).

Use what you want, but don't shit on others for their personal choices. Never sway people into buying a computer that you think is better for them. Unless you plan to, and are well versed enough to provide 24/7 tech support as they try to understand (and typically get frustrated over) something foreign to them, let them make their own choices according to their own comfort level. Instead, guide them in within their own frame of requirements. When and if they're good and ready for a taste of the other side, they'll do that on their own. If they make a mistake, so be it- better they do that than you making a bad choice for them and them hating you for it.

Switching platforms is never as easy as it looks. Never mind the interface & compatibility issues, you're in effect making them change their computing habits and lifestyle. Imagine the implications of you asking your gf/wife to make some changes, and watch you get your ass handed to you. As with anything in life, if people wanna change, they'll do it on their own, certainly not by you telling them
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Unread 11-08-2005, 07:20 AM   #3
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Thank you D-ski, I'm glad you posted that before I almost puked... Sounds like "someone" was trying to stir up the "troops". C'mon "K" use you knowledge base to INFORM not INSTIGATE.
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Unread 11-08-2005, 09:57 AM   #4

Name: voca
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wow, talk about naive. some of these hardcore apple fanboys are amazing...
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Unread 11-08-2005, 10:08 AM   #5
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Windows Vista attempts to save registry by routing all write edits (new key, edit existing key) to a storage folder. No hope on defending delete keys yet. Registry remains nearly totally uniform in overall architecture on all Windows machines. These edits can be performed by web sites and e-mail attachments. The very concept is not possible to Unix kernel, and there is no universal admin/root user password, root kits are almost eliminated in all Linux Distros. That's all I have to say on this topic.
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Unread 11-08-2005, 11:56 AM   #6
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Name: komodo
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Originally Posted by witeshark
The very concept is not possible to Unix kernel, and there is no universal admin/root user password
There's no universal admin password in windows either...

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