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Old 10-18-2012, 10:50 AM   #16
Dathaeus

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Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
I had a hard time reading that CarFax on my screen, but I think there are places on the web where you can decode the VIN and get the original configuration of the car.

I am not familiar with the trim packages, but I have observed various pieces of 'M' trim on factory cars. My wife's '04 330i has factory M wheels on it.

What I want is a ZHP engine in my little wagon..................
You may have to actually download it if ur trying to read it on the screen from the minus.com. The comments were also from many of these other BMW enthusiasts.... seems like I'll have to head over to the ZHP mafia and see if I can find something. Too bad they not taking any more members.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:04 PM   #17
Dathaeus

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This was the last response from the dealer:

"You are absolutely right. We changed the steering wheel due to the condition of the original one. It showed severe wear and the leather was coming of at the top. We searched for replacement ones, yet, you are looking at $500 to $600 used on eBay or LKQ. We had a spare wheel from a BMW with sport package, and decided to use that one instead. This car does have a few aftermarket ad-ons like the turn signals and taillights, and we received the car that way. I have new back up lamps, just not installed. Also the shifter is an aluminium one. Concerning your questions if it is a true ZHP, I can assure you that it is. I comes with the six speed manual transmission, ZHP wheels and aerodynamic package, red line at 6700 rpm and red needles. Please feel free to have it inspected by Fields BMW, and I would recommend you to make an appointment. We have not replaced the expansion tank an no leaks were detected. Regarding the question about the trunk, we did not see anything unusual or signs of an accident. I do understand your concern, but I highly doubt that somebody will speed this kind of money to create a fake ZHP. The molding along the roof line is over $340 each side, front bumper cover, grids, fog lights, wheels, anthracite interior, cloth seats, six speed manual transmission, cluster, and emblems, even if found at junk yard or eBay, would be a massive amount to invest plus the labor. We have a need clutch kit in this car, engine has up to date tune up and gaskets, and the suspension feels solid. After doing my research to answer your questions, I noticed that the shade for the sunroof is missing, and a cover piece for the headline, the one with the sunroof control, will need to be purchased/ replaced. Well, now it is up to you to make the decision. I cannot promise you an out the door price of $11000 including your trade of $2000."

A Canadian ZHP, hmmmmmm...... anyone might have an explanation on this?
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:26 AM   #18
DEATH2000
 
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Originally Posted by Dathaeus View Post
This was the last response from the dealer:

A Canadian ZHP, hmmmmmm...... anyone might have an explanation on this?
From ZHPMafia.com:

Question: And what about the BMW 330 vehicles in Canada that look like the ZHP in the United States?
Answer: Canada was different. In fact, BMW created the M Performance Package in Canada. It not only got the looks of its US counterpart, it also got the upgraded camshafts and engine tweaks. One thing that it didn't get, though, was the red needles on the instrument cluster. Moreover, the redline is at 6500 RPM, even though the car will rev to 6800 RPM -- just like its US ZHP counterpart. It also got the BMW Performance Package exhaust with the thinner walls (exactly like the one on the ZHP). Therefore, while it was not given the ZHP code name, it's simply a ZHP by another name. Indeed, it was given the option code of ZAM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:30 AM   #19
Dathaeus

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From ZHPMafia.com:

Question: And what about the BMW 330 vehicles in Canada that look like the ZHP in the United States?
Answer: Canada was different. In fact, BMW created the M Performance Package in Canada. It not only got the looks of its US counterpart, it also got the upgraded camshafts and engine tweaks. One thing that it didn't get, though, was the red needles on the instrument cluster. Moreover, the redline is at 6500 RPM, even though the car will rev to 6800 RPM -- just like its US ZHP counterpart. It also got the BMW Performance Package exhaust with the thinner walls (exactly like the one on the ZHP). Therefore, while it was not given the ZHP code name, it's simply a ZHP by another name. Indeed, it was given the option code of ZAM.
So this means some previous owner of the car put in a replacement tach to look like the real ZHP... And so the 0-60 times would be the same for either?

And so the dealer is an idiot who keeps insisting this M-II is a ZHP? Because he seems pretty adamant at this point, and therefore, it is too iffy for me to make the trip up there for this. If he knew and were honest and just said from the start its a M-II, no problem.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:37 AM   #20
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Its possible. Replacing the tach is relatively easy. The 0-60 times should be quite close. Not the exact same, but quite close. The ZHP commands more money, and thats why he may try to say it is. A cluster from a wrecked ZHP is easy to swap in and nobody would know.

Now, this is a Canadian car. In that case, Carfax is useless. If you want the Canadian history of the car go to Carproof.ca.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:41 AM   #21
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Its possible. Replacing the tach is relatively easy. The 0-60 times should be quite close. Not the exact same, but quite close. The ZHP commands more money, and thats why he may try to say it is. A cluster from a wrecked ZHP is easy to swap in and nobody would know.

Now, this is a Canadian car. In that case, Carfax is useless. If you want the Canadian history of the car go to Carproof.ca.
Ya I think either way I have totally soured on this deal... too many forks in the road, buying a ZHP shouldnt be like this. I feel scammed and dont feel good about it... this means he could be lying about a host of other things. If it were a local dealership, np... but not if i have to set aside a whole day to just go look at it and get a PPI etc....

Thanks for making the decision for me easier, I really wanted it, but not now.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:02 AM   #22
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I would pass. Their are plently more of them out their.

The hard part with them now, is anytime their is a special model or limited run, people want it. And their will be those who want to capitilize on it financially. Mostly in those that copy M3's and try to sell them as an M3 (which is fraud). Unfortunatley swapping something like a cluster can be the difference between an extra thousand dollars or more. I dont like used car dealerships for a number of reasons. One them because I find most of them have no idea what the car is, or what its worth.

Example on that: A used car lot in Calgary has a 1995 M540i, one of only 32 ever made. This one is #32 of 32, and the only one made in Boston Green. He has had it on his lot for over 4 years, and has refused to lower the asking price of $25,000. As of 2011, when recently viewed by a member of M3Post.com, the car needs close to $10,000 in work to brought back to factory spec and the guy would rather it sit on his lot in the hopes of getting $25,000 for it then let one of the hundreds of people on Bimmerforums and other websites (me included) purchase it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:47 AM   #23
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I would pass. Their are plently more of them out their.

The hard part with them now, is anytime their is a special model or limited run, people want it. And their will be those who want to capitilize on it financially. Mostly in those that copy M3's and try to sell them as an M3 (which is fraud). Unfortunatley swapping something like a cluster can be the difference between an extra thousand dollars or more. I dont like used car dealerships for a number of reasons. One them because I find most of them have no idea what the car is, or what its worth.
So in essence u r saying forget about the my "convenience" factor in trading in my oldie because that will actually hurt me more than help, financially and time wise? I can see that happening... but my local indy said these oldies are so hard to sell, and might be better off just giving it to charity, because the market for like a $2000 BMW is tiny... people who want a BMW can afford more, and people who cant are not willing to buy because its expensive to fix... so u need to find basically a fool who's eyes are bigger than his stomach. He has a red 1997 5 series sitting around for like a year, no takers yet, and its in great shape. Although I think my black 328i is much more mainstream (except for the manual) for most buyers and would be easier to sell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlurryOrnallam View Post
today there are many shoe makers that produce good quality and fashionable shoes so pin pointing one may be difficult. Rather then doing this it may be better to visit a designer shop and selecting a shoe you like as these will be from brands that are already well established.
What shop u mean, like a Braman here? They wont sell anything older than probably a 2009 or so. I dont know how would I even search for a shop that would only sell something I would want in S. FL... I mean I could go to Cali and pickup this really sweet ZHP, but thats not happening right now, and I dont know anyone there who I trust and can send me the car either.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:19 AM   #24
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So in essence u r saying forget about the my "convenience" factor in trading in my oldie because that will actually hurt me more than help, financially and time wise? I can see that happening... but my local indy said these oldies are so hard to sell, and might be better off just giving it to charity, because the market for like a $2000 BMW is tiny... people who want a BMW can afford more, and people who cant are not willing to buy because its expensive to fix... so u need to find basically a fool who's eyes are bigger than his stomach. He has a red 1997 5 series sitting around for like a year, no takers yet, and its in great shape. Although I think my black 328i is much more mainstream (except for the manual) for most buyers and would be easier to sell.


Your $2000 BMW may not have a large market where YOU are, but their is still a good market for them throughout the rest of the US. If you really want to sell it, then list it on ebay or somewhere else people in other states can see it. Their have been several threads on Bimmerforums and other sites of guys driving from the NE US down to Florida to pick up an E36. Some people have flown, and then drove 14 hours home just to buy an E36. Their is still a huge enthusiast market for the E36, as it was the most sucsessful model that BMW has ever made.

If you attempt to trade it in on a newer vehicle, then you will get lowballed hard. Its what dealers do. They try to give you pennies on the dollar for your trade so that not only do they profit on you buying a vehicle, they profit again when they sell your old one. A friend of mine was thinking of trading in his 2004 E46 and they offered him 50% of fair market value.

If the car has been sitting for a year, ask why. Is the price to high? Is their something wrong with it? Try to find out how many people have come to actually look at the car. They will probaly lie, but if they have had 20 or 30 people come look at it and nobody has wanted it their has to be a reason why. Not saying that a car that has been on the lot for a year isnt bad, just things to think about. You say the market for an older BMW is slim where you live and that could just be the reason there.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:14 AM   #25
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Your $2000 BMW may not have a large market where YOU are, but their is still a good market for them throughout the rest of the US. If you really want to sell it, then list it on ebay or somewhere else people in other states can see it. Their have been several threads on Bimmerforums and other sites of guys driving from the NE US down to Florida to pick up an E36. Some people have flown, and then drove 14 hours home just to buy an E36. Their is still a huge enthusiast market for the E36, as it was the most sucsessful model that BMW has ever made.

If you attempt to trade it in on a newer vehicle, then you will get lowballed hard. Its what dealers do. They try to give you pennies on the dollar for your trade so that not only do they profit on you buying a vehicle, they profit again when they sell your old one. A friend of mine was thinking of trading in his 2004 E46 and they offered him 50% of fair market value.

If the car has been sitting for a year, ask why. Is the price to high? Is their something wrong with it? Try to find out how many people have come to actually look at the car. They will probaly lie, but if they have had 20 or 30 people come look at it and nobody has wanted it their has to be a reason why. Not saying that a car that has been on the lot for a year isnt bad, just things to think about. You say the market for an older BMW is slim where you live and that could just be the reason there.
Ya I see what u mean... altho for my car, I would take probably down to $1500 even because of all the little things that needs to be updated and that all costs... the last guy in Orlando was gonna give me my request of $2k for it... KBB for mine for trade in is $1600-2500 and private party $2800-3800. I guess u r right, there are people all over who want a E36 for whatever reason. We'll see what this guy says.

The thing that I think is a bit weird for this Pensacola one is, the 2 initial owners at 4 years each, ok... then the final year with the 4th owner:
_______________________________________________
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:

05/16/2012 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Gulf Breeze, FL
Title #0099256750 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
Loan or lien reported
Vehicle color noted as Blue

06/07/2012 101,361 PEP BOYS
Gulf Breeze, FL
850-932-6425
Drive belts replaced
Oil and filter changed
Power steering pump replaced

07/30/2012 101,810 PEP BOYS
Gulf Breeze, FL
850-932-6425
Starter replaced
Battery/charging system/starter checked
Cabin air filter replaced

08/05/2012 103,101 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale
09/05/2012 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale
_______________________________________________

Maybe I have no idea what I am looking at, but it seems odd that they have it in the dealer for so long and fix things so intermittently? Makes me think they were trying to get away with "minimum fixes" and sell it, but they couldnt at the price they wanted because of the other problems, so then they finally decided to fix them and now back on the market. This is what I fear when I think about going all the way there, and get the PPI saying its drivable but it will need about $2k of work within the next 6 months etc.... when they should have taken care of it already.

Or maybe I am just being paranoid.
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Front: 225/45ZR
Rear: 255/40ZR



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Old 10-20-2012, 06:58 AM   #26
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Thats standard practise at dealerships. Fix the bare minumum to make it safe and road legal. Thats it. They usually ignore anything minor, or anything they dont think the customer will notice. I have seen a lot of cases where a buyer will point something out that needs to be fixed, and upon delivery hasnt been fixed. Remember, dealerships are businesses too, and are trying to make as much profit as they can. Once the car leaves their lot they dont care what happens to it.

I wouldnt put money down on a car until i saw that all things ive noticed are fixed. I would never take delivery of a car if they didnt even bother to fix small things. How do i know they bothered to fix the important things?
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:21 AM   #27
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Wow check out this break... a user braves on E46fanatics here says:

"ok I live in 35mi from Pcola and I've actually test drove that car STAY AWAY!!!! the camel interior looks pretty rough. the driver door panel isn't fastened completely and there we're a few other things. iot did have a chip and an exhaust on it but I honestly wouldn't pay over 5-7k for it."

Am I lucky or what???????

ANYWAYS, another super lucky thing... just stopped by a client/friend today, asked him if he knew anyone selling a BMW etc... and he gave me a # of a car broker, exactly what I wanted. My guy already bought a Mercedes SUV and a Volkswagon from him, basically at trade in/wholesale cost, they were marked "green" (as opposed to yellow and red) by a local dealer that all these cars go through before they go to an auction right near me. So this broker guy goes there and does his thing. I dont even have to go with him if I cant... he pays for it, delivers it to me and I pay him, done. My guy said he took the Mercedes to a dealer(just to make sure) and did a $400 full 2 hour inspection on it and nothing wrong, so he is gold. Paid him $500 for his "services" and done. So it seems this is perfect, and I will give him a call. I'll keep you posted!
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:29 AM   #28
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Thats the wonderful thing about these forums. Enthusiats hate seeing people get screwed over and then hate the car. They want to help people have a good buying experience and love the car as much as they do. A lot of guys are good in that way.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:33 PM   #29
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Thats the wonderful thing about these forums. Enthusiats hate seeing people get screwed over and then hate the car. They want to help people have a good buying experience and love the car as much as they do. A lot of guys are good in that way.
You got that right... if it werent for this kinda place, man, life could be much more difficult.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:49 PM   #30
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Also I was thinking, now that I found a trustworthy car broker than my friends has used here, get even a stock 330i, and then over the next several months wait for a really nice deal on a ZHP, BUT, I was also thinking... if I do get a ZHP with like 100+k on it, the suspension is probably not what it was, all worn up... so in like 6-12 months, wouldnt it be better, instead of spending more money on a worked in ZHP, to just replace the suspension in the 330i "I got" since it will probably need to be replaced anyways, with a ZHP styled stiffer ride, and bam, I have a brand new feel that is also much fresher than a used ZHP. Then down the road I can upgrade whatever else, and do other little things to improve HP... 10 should not be that hard to gain. Just thinking this is an option.

Also, I dont think the guy will like it too much if I told him I ONLY want a 2003-4 ZHP, I mean, I am sure that doesnt come around that often here. But a 330i, probably very often. My only thing is, it wont be a "ZHP" lol... but I think I'll get over it if I can customize it the way I want...
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